From Oral Tradition to Digital Archive: New Primary Sources for the Study of Baul Traditions CE Lorea
https://lineagebaul.blogspot.com/2025/02/indigenous-identity-theft-indigenous.html Indigenous Fraud, Indigenous Identity Theft!
Digitalizing of notebooks, manuscript about India, from India should only be done within India. Manuscripts that are outside of India should be returned to India, no scholar should have original manuscript or take them outside of India. I have heard of many of India's greatest treasures are still be looting to this day.
"Digitizing India’s Timeless Legacy!
My Goodness this is a longer critique than I thought, it is long and not easy to read, but a very important one and there is way more to this than digitalizing some note books by the British Library (the colonizers) who starved the Baul's during the famine. Babu Kishan has told stories of how this destroyed a big portion of the Bauls. A primary source of study for the Bauls of Bengal is only within the lineage of the Bauls, not by colonizers?
The Bengal famine of 1943 was the only one in modern Indian history not to occur as a result of serious drought, according to a study that provides scientific backing for arguments that Churchill-era British policies were a significant factor contributing to the catastrophe.
Opinion on the general mood of western academia today regarding the study of India:
https://www.academia.edu/49190069/Racism_Eurocentrism_and_Indology
There are serious issues in interpretation, and understanding, the ground that indigenous knowledge and wisdom stands on belongs only to the indigenous Baul, wrong interpretations, twisted, reductionism with a grave lack of understanding, the colonization continues. The twisting is unbelievable, it does not make any sense, I could qualify every single statement that scholars write about Baul?Seriously, they make it up because they thought no one will know, these people did not speak English. Babu Kishan is the first English speaker and he was the one who first read what academic scholars wrote and he protested to them personally, they ignored him as they are doing today? They place themselves as the authority on Baul, they are misguided in so many ways.
India and other countries are working towards reparations of their indigenous knowledge, the colonialists still think they know what is best and there are so many misunderstandings in this paper?
Thinking you know what are the facts and knowing the actual facts are 2 different things? It is insulting on many fronts. It is one thing to take these note books and digitalize them, it is another to interpret and put your own personal opinions in those interpretations, I can see the wrong narratives and mixing, speculations, and suggestions that Bhava Pagla was a Baul when he was not. This is a personal opinion. This should not be allowed when dealing with indigenous traditions or people?
"Authenticity can be lost in translation and western ethnocentric perspectives.The terrible irony is this. Nabani Das Khyapa Baul was part of the Freedom movement in Bharat who nevertheless breathed and believed in Unity in Diversity whereas the British ruled by creating division. What to say of their interpretations or this sacred oral tradition?" Sareen Lal Sharma
"Nevertheless, as we wait for platforms and technologies that might be closer to the sensory epistemologies of the communities we work with, ‘Songs of the Old Madman’, like any archive, hopes to create a longevity of memory for the future days."
The use of the english word Mad or Madmen have no place in association with Baul. Baul is composed of 2 Sanskrit word, it has nothing to do with mad or afflicted by the wind, but at least in the latter Edward Dimock mentions the wind. Baul = Baula = Batula in the older books that were not even mentioned in this intellectual property theft, while acting as a 'do gooder to indigenous people' saviors. I won't even explain the 2 Sanskrit word here because Babu Kishan has explained this for decades.
Epistemologies:
Let us understand this academic (scientific) colonial word from an indigenous point of view, not a colonial point of view.
What does Indigenous epistemology say about truth?
"Indigenous Elders will tell you what they know from lived experience and from the knowledge conferred on them by their Ancestors. Much of the knowledge that is carried forward is accepted as truth because it has always been known to be true."
What is Indigenous epistemology and Indigenous standpoint theory?
"The Indigenous epistemological approaches in an Indigenous standpoint enables knowledge to be recorded for the community, not the Academy. The participants are the owners of the knowledge, not the researcher. Wherever possible the traditional language should be the first form of recording."
Non-Western Approaches to Knowing
"When discussing epistemological approaches to the construction of knowledge, we need to broaden the framework we use from something other than the Eurocentric perspective. Western tradition has various ways in which it defines and defends ways of knowing, often with a focus on empirical practices. While the Western view of knowledge adheres to several traditional methods of inquiry, knowledge in other cultures may be, for example, spiritual or revealed knowledge that is learned through meditation or introspection.
Worse, some Western schools of thought romanticize traditional knowledge, which actually de-validates it because it fails to acknowledge that in its process of becoming knowledge, it too had to adhere to
To control a people you must first control what they think about themselves and how they regard their history and culture. And when your conqueror makes you ashamed of your culture and your history, he needs no prison walls and no chains to hold you. ~ John Henrik Clarke
To control a people you must first control what they think about themselves and how they regard their history and culture. And when your conqueror makes you ashamed of your culture and your history, he needs no prison walls and no chains to hold you. ~ John Henrik Clarke
What is Decolonization?
"Decolonization is traditionally defined as the act of getting rid of colonization, or freeing a country from being dependent on another country. But there is more to it than that. Decolonization is now recognized as a long-term process involving the bureaucratic, cultural, linguistic, and psychological divesting of colonial power. Moreover, it is also a process of decolonizing the minds of the people; it involves shifting the way colonized peoples view themselves, their culture, and worldview from a Western perspective."
Baul is extinct and has many problems, a colonizer coming in does not help. It has been proven over and over that they can not understand, they do not have the mental template to take an indigenous tradition and understand it, by mental template, it is meant they do not have the resources, they run here and there, talk to this person and that person who are not Baul in the first place, all of the names mentioned in this paper are not practicing Bauls and Babu Kishan knows personally do not know anything Even his own father is lacking and his brother is certainly not someone who knows anything about Baul, he never wanted to know, while Babu Kishan was busy preserving Baul he was no where to be found. If you want to know who he is read the blog post on him?
Baul has been extinct for decades, field trips, or field work in Birbhum in 2011 even for a decade is not knowing about Baul, Baul has been extinct for decades, insinuating Bauls are crossdressers shows you do not understand Baul?
You do not have a right to self-determine who is Baul or who Baul is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_the_Rights_of_Indigenous_Peoples
It is not easy going through these constant false narratives regarding Baul. We are not collecting people or money, this is Babu Kishan's lineage and he is qualified to comment, Nabani is his Guru yes he was initiated. He is not doing critiquing for name of fame he is commenting on behalf of his indigenous lineage and as the person who has preserved, pioneered Baul Cultural programs around the world since the 1960's.
He already has preserved all of these songs and way more, he is a Baul. You glorify scholars such as Carol Solomon, but you don't know the whole story, she was Babu Kishan's friend in Indian and America since she started. We will tell that story.
I thought this would be a good idea, I am not so sure after reading this paper, and realizing how easy is it for an unqualified academic scholar who is not a musicologist, not an ethnologist, and doesn't have a clue on what is a folk song and what is a Baul and that Bhaba Pagla no matter how great of poet he was, was not a Baul as he specifically told Babu Kishan who composed a lot of music for him in the 1970's until Bhaba passed away in 1984. Just because Bauls sing songs or collect songs that are not Baul songs such as Lalon Fakir who never said he was a Baul, does not mean they are Baul songs?
"For example, descendants of Bhaba Pagla were planning to sell the notebooks in exchange for an unspecified ‘large sum of money’ to one of the libraries in India or in Bangladesh, and feared that if the material were to be already avail- able online this business opportunity would have faded.
The family of Debdas Baul instead was worried that new generations of young, aspiring singers could just pick any song out of the online archive and use it on stage, while it took years of sevā and disciplined practice under a teacher for Debdas to accumulate this repertoire of knowledge.
During the course of the two webinars that we attended with the Endangered Archives Programme team of the British Library, it clearly emerged that among the aims of the EAP scheme, making the digitised material available for local communities is not included. They stated that the expenses of a website were not eligible costs. Only monetary tokens of thankfulness were made available for the people who own and use this knowledge. They reiterated that the EAP scheme is designed as a contribution to the global community of
scholars. "
(The global community of scholars regarding Baul have made an utter mess of Baul, speculations, they should not be able to study or have access to Baul anymore).
Those families should sell their 'note books' to the highest bidder to a library in India, because you should be able to benefit from your ancestral property and have the copyrighted because otherwise they will be used for free by people who are pretendian and usually their intentions are to make money, collect donations and create wealth for themselves. Do not let them go to an outside country because they will be gone forever and misinterpreted.
Do not let the British or American Libraries or Universities collect your notebooks. They belong in India.Ethno-graphy
Ethnography means, (the scientific description of the customs of individual peoples and cultures) it is ridiculous to use Baul and put it under a microscope by an outsider who does not even know Baul, and yet wants to use Baul as an umbrella term and I know exactly where you copied and pasted that one from, no one until the recent past used ever said Baul was an umbrella name?
Baul does not need to be compared to Fakir or have Fakir attached to the name Baul. If Fakir copies Baul it has nothing to do with Baul. They are separate subjects, they dress differently, they have different customs, one is based on Islam the other is based on Sanatan Dharma. If you truly have studied customs of individual people and cultures, would you not be creating a new social engineering project, or some new speculations or repeating already wrong descriptions copied from previous books written by scholars, journalists and Bangladeshis that are already wrong?
This indigenous lineage can only be qualified through Indian Philosophical systems such as Purva Paksha and within by someone who actually is trained and knows. Indigenous Baul is not compatible with colonial systems of exegesis. If you can not do that, do not go further, there has been enough damage to the Vaishnava Sahajiya Tantric Bauls of Birbhum.
Bauls are not your marketing group for pretendian Bauls to collect people, Bauls do not collect people, they do not preach, they teach and the teaching Babu Kishan has seen is not the truth, it is constructed to attract people, Bauls never ever collected people? The key word is not Ashram it is Akhara and the Baul Akhara's were secret, only for the initiated not for outsiders.
They are not things to be studied or collected data from. Ethnography is a new way to study indigenous groups, another buzz word to categorize what can not even be understood.
Only a indigenous expert trained in Purva Paksha and Mimamsa Philosophy regarding Baul, is qualified to make distinctions regarding Baul, because of the marginalization of indigenous many are unfortunately unqualified today.
Many have been pushed out of Baul because of all the fake Bauls who usurp Baul as their acting singing careers, traveling around the world saying they are Baul making people stupid, however, they have thousands of likes and people think that makes a person authentic? Using an indigenous tradition does have a karma, just as with academics who are sourcing funding for their own career, name and fame. Think again.
Babu Kishan has given over 60 years of his life to preserving Baul. If there is someone else who is an oral and classical Sanskritist and knows their music and if they are indigenous to Baul that certainly would help and make this task easier for Babu Kishan, please come forward.
Babu Kishan is a music composer, a musicologist he has categorized all the folk music of India for the big record companies, he is not looking for fame or money, he has preserved this one and only lineage of Baul for over 6 decades he is a Baul initiated by his Grandfather Nabani Das Khyapa Baul who is his Guru. He has composed Baul music for 80% of his famous father music and is a qualified music composer in Indian Cinema. He was born as a Baul and has practiced Baul for over 6 decades and is the only expert in music and languages of the Bauls.
So much has been written in this paper are innuendo and speculation or just plain wrong, this will be in our book under Academic Scholars. This needs to watched carefully and qualifed by someone outside of academia, qualifed in the Mimansa Philosophical way of Purva Paksha. Academia has done so much damage in the past and they continue to make it up, speculate and twist what they can never understand.
"Other names proposed by scholars of these traditions include bartamān panthī (Openshaw 2004) and bas- tubādī (Jha 1999)."
No you have no rights to propse a different name for the Bauls?
Seriously, you can not just make it up, propose, blatant self-determination. Baul is not either of those, do you see and understand how wrong this is, making it up. Baul is none of the above. Things like this have led to a cultural genocide of the Bauls, everyday, a random, redefines Baul. Can you imagine if someone tells you who you are? Academic Scholars should not propose anythings about anybody especially an indigenous group?
I have had to rethink after pulling apart the above academic paper by CE Lorea. I will tell you why, and it is necessary to understand, this is the kind of speculative writing that leads to Cultural Genocide of the Vaishanva Sahajiya Bauls of Birbhum.
“In this article, I share some provisional findings based on a digitisation project that my team has completed in April 2021.7 The digital archive, titled Songs of the Old Madmen was funded by the Endangered Archives Programme, British Library (October 2019–April 2021)."
Note: You can not self-determine who the Bauls are. You are not an insider or a Baul, the academic scholars trying to self-determine Baul are notMaster of Indian Music and the Folk music of India or of Baul music.
This is a colonized self-determination of who the Baul are by someone who is paid to do a job, a funded project by an academic scholar.
Did you know that Purna Das Baul, Manju Das and Babu Kishan did a cultural program at the British Library in the early part of the 1980’s? They are the first.
Critique: From oral tradition of Digital Archive:
‘Some believe he was the composer of the well-known song Hṛd Mājhāre Rākhibo Cheṛe Debo Nā, and of Kichu din mane mane, later popularised by the stunning performances of Paban Das Baul and Parvathy Das Baul.’
This is a fact (not a belief), it is a fact that Nabani Das Khyapa Baul wrote; Hrd Majhare Rakhibo Chere Debo and Kichu din mone mone. Both were recorded by Hindustan Records in the 1950’s originally. Hrd Mjahre Rakibo was supposed to be sung by Radharani Dasi. It was Nabani's friends Pankaj Maklik RC Boral both admirers of Nabani, they heard Nabani sing in Shantiniketan and it was decided they would record Radharani Dasi.Unfortunately, Radharani fell ill or perhaps became too shy to record the song and instead they recorded Purna Das Baul her younger brother, Radharani Dasi is the eldest of Nabani and Brajabala's children. There was an older daughter named Annapurna Dasi she passed away young.
Mrd Majare Rakibo was the first Baul song ever recorded by Hindustan Records and it was a hit, where do you think other Bauls got the song from, all the songs recorded with Purna Das Baul, Nabani Das Baul singing were appropriated and sung by pretendian Bauls are still are today. The ones mentions above appropriated lots from this lineage, but I think Paban at least has association and didn't make up a fake lineage.
You should know all songs that Purna Das Baul sang were copied by pretendian Bauls as Paban Das Baul narrates in his book, ‘the fake it til you make it,’ Bauls.
It should be known that the refugees from Bangladesh and others who were in poverty copied these songs off of the radio and started to act like Bauls and busk for donation because of poverty, they were not Bauls but pretendian Baul (people) who needed to survive.
Nabani had recorded Hrd Majare Rakibo (his lyrics and tune) in the 1930's, his songs were all appropriated and nobody ever gave credit for his songs, they just take and use, trying to be famous, this too, has led to a cultural genocide, riding on the coattails of this one and only lineage, that can be proved, but no one else can prove anything that Babu Kishan can not qualify. Hrd Mahare Rakibo was recorded the first time by a British Journalist who had come in the 1930’s. I will write the name latter. He recorded Nabani singing his song, his lyrics and his tune.
If Padan Das Baul sang it he copied it from this lineage. Many others sang this song too?
Purna Das Baul made this song a super duper hit, I can't even believe you are writing about Baul, but do not know Baul history. Stop, you are not qualified, the Bauls have been extinct in Birbhum well before 2011.
Kichu din mone mone, sung by Parvathy Baul was copied (appropriation of the intellectual property of this lineage)directly from Babu Kishan’s youtube channel, she listened to it over and over, about 9 years ago, we have the analytics, she recorded it shortly after appropriating this song, to a Kabir site and either gave the wrong poet name intentionally to mislead people and how would you know, this is why they do it and nobody says anything because of all the chaos and confusion, that academics, journalist and people who do not have a clue have made. She gave the nickname of Rasaraj Gosia that nobody would even know (Roshik) of course Babu Kishan is the only one who knows, he knows because he preserved it, studied it, composed music for it and recorded his father. I can go on one after the other but this is already way too long, sorry.
Babu Kishan categorized all of the Folk Music of India for the big record companies in India. He knows his Baul songs that is why he is an expert on the Music of India and he is not your regular Baul, he preserved Baul songs and Baul for over 60 years. He has a Master in Indian Music and Philosophy from Calcutta University. He is not a random, what your academics and the people you association in Birbhum tell you is wrong, you are being led down the wrong path, they are not experts but pretending they are experts
This is not hearsay, when it comes to anything about Baul it is speculative and Lorea goes on giving accolades to scholars who Babu Kishan knew personally for decades and has always told them what they wrote is wrong, yet it is copied and pasted by academics and they do not even know the stories of the songs and attribute the songs to the wrong people who basically stole the song? Nobody has ever said a thing, it is time this needs to be addressed. There are so many fake Baul and the lineage ancestral Bauls are so marginalized they are dead.
These songs were only popularized by Purna Das Baul and copied by pretendian Baul.
After reading this paper with a thousand holes in it full of speculations I realize it is going to be more difficult to get the truth out? Nothing changes regarding Baul too many people are speaking without any authority regarding Baul.
What really caught my eyes was,
“According to widespread rumours, when Indira Gandhi visited Shantiniketan she went to meet Nabani Khyepa Baul.”
Indira Gandhi was a student of Nabani’s at Vishva Bharati, how do we know, this family knew Nehru as Nabani was a state singer for Nehru during the Quit India Movement.
Then Purna Das Baul, Manju Dasi and Babu Kishan did the same with Indira Gandhi, then Sanjay Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi, they knew them, Manju was a close friend of Indira Gandhis and Babu Kishan had many conversation with Indira Gandhi in her home and with Rajiv Gandhi. They knew them, worked for Indira Gandhi as the opening for her speeches, just as Nabani did for Nehru, as these Bauls could only attract millions of people, as the pied pipers of Baul.
Babu Kishan has long discussions with Indira Gandhi, one I though interesting was he asked why she kept a Bhagavad Gita beside her bed? So many people insinuated she was Muslim but her choice of reading was the Bhagavad Gita, and she loved Anandamayi Ma.
Lorea uses widespread rumors, innuendos, hearsay, and speculations without using names, this leading scholar, that leading scholar, oh my goodness, they are only leading to you? Bauls are indigenous people and Nabani was not illiterate as per your utterly wrong speculation. Mahadev who is Babu Kishan's cousin does not know, and did not know his grandfather Nabani, he was not born for a long time after Nabani died, it was not 3 years.
Mahdev stated; “He has never given (initiatory) mantra to anybody. He has never made anybody his disciple.”
Sorry to say, Babu Kishan aka Krishnendu Das Baul was given not only an initiatory mantra by his Grandfather, he was and is his disciple to this day and when Nabani passed in 1969 Babu Kishan was the only person with him and he grabbed Babu aka Krishnendu’s hand and transferred all of his shakti to him, he didn’t go mad, he went into a deep samadhi for 8 days and was with Nabani on a higher plane.
I have written about Nabani’s association as the eldest grandchild and first Grandchild of Nabani’s, no one knows more than Babu Kishan. Nabani had many disciples, they just did not go around writing about it, they took diksha and did sadhana, back then they didn’t have social media where the pretendian Baul constantly made up false narratives.
“He asked Braja Bala – his wife – to never interrupt him while he is meditating. It was the only thing he was adamant about. Whatever happens, do not call me.
Then, one day I think a zamindār or someone important, a baṛalok, came to visit the ashram, while he was meditating in sāmādhi. His wife Braja Bala then suddenly called him.
He woke up from the meditation all of a sudden, and from then onward, he spent the rest of his life paralyzed. His nerves did not work anymore. That was three years before he died. “
Yes, Nabani's wife (not partner) her name is Brajabala Dasi, they married young and Nabani disappeared until Brajabala was old enough, these were his wandering Tantric Avadhut days. No woke garbage please. Brajabala was Nabani's wife and she was not from Tarapith. Brajabala was from Tarapith?
Some of Lorea’s suggestions are leading towards a tiny bit of accuracy in one way, and completely wrong speculations in other ways.
Nabani Das Khyapa Baul had a brain stroke in1962 before Allen Ginsberg came to meet with Nabani. When Ginsberg came Babu Kishan was a baby on Nabani’s lap, this was relayed to Babu Kishan by Allen Ginsberg who was a many decades friend and by his grandmother Brajabala Dasi. This is Babu Kishan's life he knows his story, he lived it.
Nabani did not die 3 years later, he passed away in 1969, 8 years later and he did recover from that stroke, not fully but he did recover.
Babu Kishan knows he was there, Mahadev was not even born for a long time after 1962 and at that time Lakshman Das Baul around, he was in another village and not around all.
It was only after Nabani passed in 1969 that Lakshman started to come around. Mahadev is way younger than Babu Kishan's youngest brother who can not be anyless that 3 year or closer to 4 years younger than Babu Kishan.
The insinuation, innuendos, by academic scholars who speculate, by way of rumors, or what it might be (guesswork) with no proof, Babu Kishan was there, he lived it.
This has nothing to do with increasing the fame of the Bauls, it has nothing to do with money, the preservation that Babu Kishan has done over 60 years is a labour of love for his Guru's Nabani and Brajabala. Babu Kishan was given mantra and Diksha by Nabani he is here and lucid and not insane. He has absorbed the full force of Nabani's shakti. Nabani did have some disciples, but they didn't go on youtube, there was no TV even back then, the practices are secret are secret, Baul is never about collecting people, Nabani is the first person to sing on a stage, performance, stages is new?
I thought they needed accurate proof without a shadow of doubt.
The proof scholars use is other books which other academics have already speculated, with wrong words or hearsay? You mention a few Baul names but those people are not Bauls, they are pretendian Bauls. They followed Baul and copied everything from this lineage, first of all (Das Baul and Dasi) only come from this ancestral lineage and the patchwork dress was designed by Babu Kishan.
There are way too many assumptions, speculations; by the way Babu Kishan has copies of everyone of those songs and did you know that he has composed music to many of them already?
Did you know that just because Bauls (this ancestral lineage) has Bhaba Pagla, Lalon Fakir and Sufi songs or sang sufi songs does not mean those songs are Baul songs? These are the kind of assumptions that are shoving untruths, speculations and personal biases by the academic scholar down the throats of the public.
No of course not, how could you know, you have not spent 60 years preserving this Baul ancestry, based on ancestry, lineage is always based on ancestry according to many dictionary definitions?
“Nobody except scholars would want to sit down and read such notebooks as literary objects, muted from their soundful life and sensuous dimensions.”
This is not true, Babu Kishan has preserved Baul, he has all those songs and has composed music (tunes) for them, Nabani did this for others too, he did it for Rabindranath Tagore, it does not mean they are Baul songs, perhaps Babu Kishan inherited Nabani’s music composing skills, this is not your family it is Babu Kishan’s family, his father is Nabani Das Baul's oldest son, Nabani was Babu Kishan’s father Guru (Boro Baba) grandfather for 8 years, he is Nabani’s disciple shishya, what he say has more weight than you innuendo’s. You don’t know Babu Kishan and neither does your Guru.
There are a couple of things of grave concern in your writing, and very misleading.
“The main collections of notebooks belong to the families of two influential figures of the Baul tradition, namely Bhaba Pagla (1902–1984) and Nabani Das Khyepa Baul (1892–1964).’
Nabani passed away in 1969, Mahadev is telling you Nabani passed away 3 years after he was born. This is inaccurate, because Babu Kishan played with Laxshman’s first daughter who was Babu Kishan’s age, born in 1963, then Sukhdeva was born, then Mahadev after that. He is confused and he has details all mixed up.
If Babu Kishan was born in September 1962 his next brother Bapi is born at least 9 months later and his youngest brother born at least a year later. Babu’s youngest brother was at least 2 years old before he came and met Nabani? That goes well past 1964.
Details are important and there is no room for speculations or innuendo. You must know if your source is reliable, I sure hope you paid them well for those notebooks, you should not financially benefit from these songs.
How on earth did Babu Kishan’s younger brothers visit a dead Nabani in 1962 or 1964? He was alive until 1969.
I wrote about this in the section regarding Babu Kishan birth?
Deben Battacharya wrote, Nabani passed in 1962, how did Allen Ginsberg meet Nabani? That is incorrect too.
Babu Kishan knew Bhaba Pagla he was not a Baul, he was a poet, Babu Kishan composed a lot of music for him. He used to visit their home in Calcutta all the time, he even told Babu Kishan he was not a Baul but loved Nabani and Purna Das Baul. Babu Kishan has some of his songs and many songs that are not from his tradition in their archives.
Just because they have other songs does not mean they are Baul songs.
Bhaba Pagla was a poet and sadhaka he never called himself a Baul, it is misleading to say he was a Baul because his songs played on the radio and Bauls sang his songs. The only reason they played on the radio is Babu Kishan recorded and produced them and they became popular. Bhaba Pagla has his own people, his own ashrams, his own style, he never said he was a Baul and told Babu Kishan he was not.
Next of great concern is the dismissal of what you have most certainly read and made judgment about off of Babu Kishan’s blog lineagebaul.blogspot.com hundred of thousands of people have read it and I am assuming your judgements are from the blog, perhaps not?
You do not understand the information you have obtained and you are self-promoting Bhaba Pagla as a Baul saint, when Nabani was the last Baul saint. Either someone is feeding you rhetoric and thinks they know what they are talking about or you are sorely misled in your assumptions, speculations. You can not self-determine who is Baul, that is not your job.
“The digitised material comprises sacred songs of enlightened composers (mahā- jan padakartā) from the late eighteenth century onward, including Haure Gosain, Jadubindu , Kubir Gosain, Din Sharat, Lalon Fakir, Nabani Khyepa, and hundreds of songs written by the famous saint-composer Bhaba Pagla.”
Nabani is the only famous saint-composer regarding Baul. As I said, this family knew Bhaba Pagla intimately; he stayed at their home in Calcutta all the time. Purna Das Baul is Lakshman Das Bauls older brother. Whether you Diksha Guru likes him or not is a mute point. It should be stated that your Guru does not know Babu Kishan.
Haure Gosain is an ancestor of this lineage, Jabubindu was a great friend of Nabani's and a writer, Kubir Gosain is an ancestor of this lineage they are Vaishnava Bauls of Birbhum and from this lineage and Jabubindu followed Nabani and was a disciple of his, Nabani had many disciples.
Lalon Shaw, Dr Sharat and Bhaba Pagla are poets, not Bauls they never said they were Baul. Just because other poets songs are in note books does not make them Baul? Poets like other poets, thus that is why Babu Kishan loved poets such as Allen Ginsberg, Bob Dylan ect... If you took his note books and decided every poem in his note books was Baul, you would be so confused he is a poet and many Bauls are singing his poetry that was recorded with Purna Das Baul singing?
“Second, the breadth of the attribute ‘madmen’ (which loosely translates the terms khyāpā, pāgal/ pāg’lā, and bāul) allowed us to fit songs and items of various practitioners, not only those who unequivocally defined themselves as Baul.”
Khyapa
Khyapa or sometimes spelled Khepa or kepa (Kheppi Ma for women) has an inner meaning ‘sat (eternal) chit (intelligent awake consciousness) ananda (pure bliss), highly mystical, fully awake, aware, divine ecstatic love, wild, free bird, blissful, divine consciousness, magical, mysterious.
Out of body (mystical) connected to the divine at a very high level as a ‘Mirror of the Sky’ the name Rabindranath Tagore gave to Nabani Das Khyapa Baul and he gave him the name Khyapa also, Tagore knew who Nabani was and wanted him around all the time.
Nabani was the only Baul Saint, Babu Kishan has been saying this for decades.
Khyapa is not something that can be faked, the name Khyapa is not the name for regular people. Khyapa is the name in the Bauls sense to be used by someone who has not done Baul sadhana.
Khyapa is not the name to be used for your singing career or new age cult? It is not a name for everybody, it was a name designated for Baul Avadhut or a Siddhanata that Nabani was as an (accomplished adept).
Khyapa it is not a name you randomly call yourself, as in now I am a Baul singer, I will call myself Khyapa that should attract some attention, then I can travel to Europe and festivals?
Pagla
Means madman, wild, mentally ill, lunatic, crazy. The 2 words have very different meanings and are different titles. I strongly reject this term mad. Figure it out use another word?
Mad or madmen should never be used in relation to Baul as it created stereotypes, Khyapa is a completely different word from pagla? Social engineering guess work, you have embarked on a project of your own social engineering fitting Baul songs somewhere.
Did you ever think to consult an actual Baul who knows music, who has preserved all those songs already? You first have to know the music of India, you are not even qualified as a musician or music composer or in categorizing any music of India?
“The family of Debdas Baul instead was worried that new generations of young, aspiring singers could just pick any song out of the online archive and use it on stage, while it took years of sevā and disciplined practice under a teacher for Debdas to accumulate this repertoire of knowledge.”
Debdas Baul aka Dev Das Baul is not from Baul, he made up a fake lineage as many years ago, he follows Baul there is a big difference, he is first generation his family would be 2nd if indeed they are practicing. Many of the younger aspiring Bauls (singers, artists and famed youtubers have done the same) Deb Das Baul he was a servant in Purna Das Baul's home, this is where he learned Baul singing only and then this family brought him along on a few trips overseas.
This is when he started his life as a Baul with no initiation or lineage. Babu Kishan’s brother ran into him at an airport, and started to laugh and say haha now you have a Lineage joking with him, his response was laughter back and I have to feed my family too?
However, yes he is correct, many pretendian Bauls as I call them, copy and use everything that Babu Kishan has ever recorded or written. It didn’t take years, it took lifetimes of seva and sadhana, all copied, speculated by outsiders, pretendian Baul and academic scholars who merely mish mash and give accolades to their academic buddies who they never met, copy and paste from one book to another?
All of these notebooks should be in the hands of only Indian scholars you make think you are doing a great job, however, it is another colonization of indigenous knowledge. Unless you know the languages of the Baul, unless you can speak them fluently, and are an expert on Indian music and can compose Indian music yourself and can classify all the folk music of India, you are not an expert and this should be a job for experts. You have to know what has been recorded earlier on Hindustan Records ect… and what is copied by outsiders, there is no other lineage of Baul.
Babu Kishan is not using Baul to be known, he could care less, he can’t even care about his fame as a legitimate qualified Music Composer with a huge body of work over 6 decades. Those that actually know him will testify to all the above. Those who don’t know him and say they do, he does not know you and these are blind speculations on his character as to who he is.
“My śikṣā guru (whose ashram is in Birbhum district, not more than 40 km from Nabani Khyepa’s sāmādhi) refers to Nabani Das Khyepa as an avadhūta who was accomplished in śmaśān sādhanā (cremation ground practices) and accu- mulated tantric siddhis.”
I have already told this story long time back and Babu Kishan has told this story since the 1970’s, how is this your story to tell? I have already written about this on Babu Kishan’s blog lineagebaul.blogspot.com , it is common knowledge, Babu Kishan lived it, there is another blog I have told this too, it is called MirroroftheSky.blogspot.com these blogs have been active since 2009.
Babu Kishan is the only alive disciple of Nabani Das Khyapa Baul, he was born into his lap abondoned at birth left by his father the great Purna Das Baul and Manju Das and did not meet his birth parents until he youngest brother was 2 years old when they came from Calcutta to visit their eldest brother who they did not know. This is Babu Kishan's story to tell just as is the above?
Babu Kishan has always talked about his Grandfather Guru Nabani Das Khyapa Baul, he is the only one who has preserved his name, he has help memorial Baul Melas for decades in honor of his Guru, his Grandfather, who would know better, Nabani was his father when his father left him for dead?
Of great concern and and it should be, everything regarding Baul or other poets or Baul followers belongs to them, it is their right as indigenous people to make their own self-determinations.
Academic Scholars do not matter, they have made a huge mess of Baul, they have speculated and they should be anonymous. Why do scholars need their name to be recognized at all? I remember a conversation at a University in Virginia that Babu Kishan was teaching at, he had said, somethings about another professor and the professor said, oh my goodness, you can't be critical about that professor who wrote about Baul, his authority trumped indigenous Baul? It was as if that professor knew more than Babu Kishan, he was the authority and this is really wrong.
No academic scholar is the authority of anything, they do field trips and research and are not fluent in the nuances and are often misled by the wrong people, they may know some classical Sanskrit but there is a difference between Classical Sanskrit and the mystical oral Sanskrit with manuscripts.
Seriously, something has to change, these traditions need exegesis that is indigenous in the India system of Indian Philosophy as in Mimansas Philosophy as in Purva Paksha?
Here are a few of the concerns that the academic scholar Lorea, wrote about; a very real concern:
"For example, descendants of Bhaba Pagla were planning to sell the notebooks in exchange for an unspecified ‘large sum of money’ to one of the libraries in India or in Bangladesh, and feared that if the material were to be already avail- able online this business opportunity would have faded.
The family of Debdas Baul instead was worried that new generations of young, aspiring singers could just pick any song out of the online archive and use it on stage, while it took years of sevā and disciplined practice under a teacher for Debdas to accumulate this repertoire of knowledge.
During the course of the two webinars that we attended with the Endangered Archives Programme team of the British Library, it clearly emerged that among the aims of the EAP scheme, making the digitised material available for local communities is not included. They stated that the expenses of a website were not eligible costs. Only monetary tokens of thankfulness were made available for the people who own and use this knowledge. They reiterated that the EAP scheme is designed as a contribution to the global community of scholars. "
Indigenous people should only benefit from their indigneous knowledge and wisdom, a scholar should be 0 just as I was taught a Jyotishi should be a Zero it is not about you. If a indigenous person wants to sell their notes, they should only be sold to Indian libraries for large sums of money. If Mahadev Das Baul (Babu Kishan younger cousing) only took a few ruppee's for these note books, they you took advantage and it is crime against humanity! They should be able to sell and copyright all their intellectual knowledge aka Note BOOKS. They should benefit, you should not and you should be a zero in this in your scholarly work, too many scholars have done wrong and continue to destroy indigenous wisdom.
The indigenous people should sell their books, they should be well paid and it is better they are kept within India rather than go back to their colonizers?
Where is the common sense? No more cultural appropriation and colonization.
"Like other Baul families, he maintains that his family lineage can be traced back to the late fifteenth-century Vaishnava saint Nityananda Mahaprabhu’s son, Birbhadra."
I wrote a whole chapter in Babu Kishan's book to be released in 2024, I was going to write it here actually I think I have but on another page in this blog, but as you know for sure someone will steal it, appropriate or poach whatever, Babu Kishan, Purna Das Baul or Nabani Das Baul does, they twist, use and try to collect people?"
First of all only this lineage, not like others because there is no other, this is a bold faced lie and I want proof of what she is saying, insinuating, speculating about, prove it show details and then have someone qualify it. This is the biggeat thing wrong with colonial academics they have no proof, just generalizations and more speculations.
What I found interesing was your innuendo’s, on behalf of Babu Kishan who has told me to not waste my time on this but I think it is necessary, everybody thinks anything goes, he will come out again as advocate for his one and only (do not make up fake lineages). Nobody even used lineage in regards to Baul until Babu Kishan did starting in the 1980's.
He knows his Baul poetry, Indian music in every way as an accomplished Indian Music Composer with a Masters Degree in Indian Folk music, who has categorized all the folk music of India. He has already preserved these songs and Lalon and other Sufi songs over a 60 year period. He will be watching to see what you do, what you write using his Grandfather Guru's songs, he will watch how you mix and match? Then he will loudly qualify what you have done, hopefully this can be done within the Indian system of qualifying, not the colonial system. I think Baul has had enough.
This recent paper of Lorea must be pulled apart and laid bare, it should be done in the Indian system of Mimamsa Philosophy namely Purve Paksha.
These songs are kept in his family's Uncle Lakshman Das Baul home in Suri Birbhum W Bengal.
There is no need to be suggestive or derogatory (showing a critical or disrespectful attitude.) You may wonder how is this, these are living lineages, they live and work in one place together. About how these note books are kept even if they have food on them and are deteriorated, Babu Kishan has preserved these books, you guy think this one and only lineage is stupid, Babu Kishan strongly disagrees with your interference in his lineage as the eldest of his lineage and the person who has preserved this one and only lineage based on ancestry for over 60 years.
And do not make assumptions that these notebooks are all Baul poetry, they are not all Baul. Bauls always looked at other poets, appreciated other poets, Lalon Fakir and Bhaba Pagla are not Bauls, they are poets. Bhaba Pagla never said, he was a Baul, neither did Lalon Fakir. Babu Kishan is the first to put compose music for Lalon Fakir songs back in the 1970's sung by his father Purna Das Baul, thus they became popular, Purna Das Baul sang other poets songs that were not Baul. Same with Bhava Pagla, he used to come to their house and ask Babu Kishan aka Krishnendu then to compose music to his poetry?
Bhaba Pagla told Babu he is not a Baul, he appreciates Baul, he had his own people, and his own ashrams. Bauls have akhara's? Distinctions are important. Another Guru from another tradition does not know who is a Baul and who is not.
These are indigenous people who have had their way of life appropriated and destroyed by Globalism and colonization first by the Islamists then by the BRITISH, now the British Library is trying to save them, I don't think so, scholars have done a huge damage to the Baul, through their speculations, calling Baul an umbrella, they are liars and cheaters and damage indigenous wisdom.
Academic scholarship is a job a career that you get paid for, the indigenous people do not get paid for what they do, I sure hope you gave a huge portion of your funding to these people who you basically stole the songs from for maybe a few rupees?
Stop using Baul, and stop making suggestions of who Babu Kishan is without using his name? Just because you never found any books on Nabani does not mean there are none? I certainly am not going to tell you, stop writing papers of patch work copy and paste trying to draw attention to yourself by making sensationalized headings Baul is extinct and has been for the past at least 40 years. It needs to be handled on by indigenous experts. Academia has made such a mess.
The home that Babu Kishan grew up in is the home he was born in, you took books that are from his lineage this originally was Nabani Das Baul and Brajabala Dasi home, as young child it was Radharani Dasi’s home and when she married Gopal Das Baul (from the Ekachakra Nityananda Temple) and Chakradhar’s home.
Most of these songs have been already preserved by Babu Kishan, and it was Babu Kishan who made sure they kept this home as far as he could see Lakshman needed the home even though Purna Das Baul tried to take it over.
What CE Lorea does not know or Mahadev does not know because he never met Nabani there is that there is a huge backstory. Babu Kishan aka Krishnendu already preserved Nabani’s manuscripts.
Babu Kishan had already preserved all these note books, including all the manuscripts of this lineage which will never be shared with you, he has preserved the manuscripts that were Nabani’s and of this lineage.
Since CE Lorea has written this paper in November of 2003:
Conclusion: of the above paper. The paper is full of vague generalizations of copy and paste from other scholars, that are completely wrong about Baul. All will be revealed in our book to be released in 2024. The book is way longer and has taken longer because of these kind of false narratives, all has to be qualified. Everyday a new false narrative of speculation comes out about Baul, by pretendian Bauls and Academic Scholars. "Digitizing India’s Timeless Legacy!
